Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:29 am

ScubaSteve wrote:It's true. A 60 point winger who can't pass or play defense is a second line player on a good team.


You clearly have no concept of NHL point scales. On average, about 7 to 8 NHL wingers score in the 70 point or above range. In nearly 100% of cases, they play with an "elite" center.

But more importantly, it's only left wing. Nobody gives a *poo poo*.

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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby B Kat » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:29 am

mookie1010 wrote:Are we done with the mid-season rest period yet?

It's not been too bad since I'm full on baseball at the moment, can only take so much in one week.

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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby mookie1010 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:34 am

Frug took that bait so hard he bent the GD hook.
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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:37 am

The Frugal Gourmet wrote:
ScubaSteve wrote:It's true. A 60 point winger who can't pass or play defense is a second line player on a good team.


You clearly have no concept of NHL point scales. On average, about 7 to 8 NHL wingers score in the 70 point or above range. In nearly 100% of cases, they play with an "elite" center.

But more importantly, it's only left wing. Nobody gives a *poo poo*.


Since I didn't feel like pro-rating last year's stats, I looked up 2011-12 stats, and there were 35 wingers who scored 60 points or more. So yeah, the AVERAGE team has one of them. The good teams have more than one of them.
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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby BigAl » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:39 am

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/stat ... _season/49

Gemel Smith: 8gp 10g 4a, 1.75ppg. In a 3-way tie for 2nd overall in OHL scoring. Let's hope he can keep that up.
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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:40 am

mookie1010 wrote:Frug took that bait so hard he bent the GD hook.


It has to be done sometimes.

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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:40 am

BigAl wrote:http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/stats/show/type/top_scorers/ls_season/49

Gemel Smith: 8gp 10g 4a, 1.75ppg. In a 3-way tie for 2nd overall in OHL scoring. Let's hope he can keep that up.


So he's in decline. Last I checked, he was 1st. The ratio of goals to assists is what's funny.

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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:42 am

Is that the same Canadian Junior League where Steve Ott scored like 76 goals?
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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:46 am

ScubaSteve wrote:Is that the same Canadian Junior League where Steve Ott scored like 76 goals?


He scored 50 goals in like 55 games playing with Spezza. I distinctly remember everyone who watched those games though told us that it was all Spezza and that Ott was just cashing in the easy passes. So, I never had the expectation that would really translate. Nevertheless, Ott was a decent NHLer who had a couple of 20 goal seasons.

Usually you want someone who scores at least 1.5 points/game at the OHL level. Even more if it's QMHJHL. That's when you start getting excited.

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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:50 am

ScubaSteve wrote:It's true. A 60 point winger who can't pass or play defense is a second line player on a good team.

I'm giving Benn a couple of months at this new position with new linemates before I make my off-season declarations about him more permanent.
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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:54 am

The Frugal Gourmet wrote:He scored 50 goals in like 55 games playing with Spezza. I distinctly remember everyone who watched those games though told us that it was all Spezza and that Ott was just cashing in the easy passes. So, I never had the expectation that would really translate. Nevertheless, Ott was a decent NHLer who had a couple of 20 goal seasons.

Ott scored a lot of Spezza goals, but a guy has to have some amount of skill to put them in. A total spare wasn't going to score that many.

Ott had the hands and knack for offense to make the ~20 goal mark his norm, but he decided that being pesky was more important than doing good things with the puck. His stupid team encouraged him as well, which is why he became a *poo poo* player who was a net negative for the team.
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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:56 am

Yeah, Ott was never a total spare IMO. Just an idiot. Although his passing was sometimes really really off. And funny. I think the guy just got himself really amped up.

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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:24 pm

Troy McClure wrote:
ScubaSteve wrote:It's true. A 60 point winger who can't pass or play defense is a second line player on a good team.

I'm giving Benn a couple of months at this new position with new linemates before I make my off-season declarations about him more permanent.


Benn, Schmenn.

I mean I guess he's the captain now but all of my hopes and fears are now on the shoulders of Tyler Seguin.

Say what you want about Cole and Benn. Maybe they're not the greatest wingers. But they both have speed and hands and a resume that says they are 25+ goal scorers. The prototypical scoring winger does not even need to be a good passer. But if that doesn't click so be it. We try him with Whitney and Chiasson. And if THAT doesn't click? We'll, we're fucked. Really really fucked.

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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:32 pm

The Frugal Gourmet wrote:Benn, Schmenn.


I don't think Schenn would be much of an upgrade.
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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:34 pm

Seguin is the key forward for sure. This just goes back to the question of what we also have in Benn. 25-30 goal scorer is great, but as we are so familiar, the expectations are for much more, including from the Stars and THN people who rated him as a top 40 winger based on expectations of a 40 goal type of season. If it's more of the same from Benn, that is disappointing but not devastating to the team.

I agree with you about Seguin's importance. Hell, I think this team sinks or swims over the next few seasons entirely based on whether the D can improve (internally or externally) and whether Seguin can become the player we expect him to be.

I'll concede that the Seguin factor can be lessened if Nichushkin really is Malkin part two and if Chiasson really is Mike Bossy part two, but I'm not putting money on those just yet.
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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:40 pm

I think making Benn the captain is what makes me most nervous. It would be no big deal if it wasn't for that.

And I pretty much agree with your assessment of what we need.

I actually thought Nichushkin looked fantastic in his first game. He passed to it to a player in the slot like 3 times (so much for him not having any playmaking). All those times the guy was quickly covered or it was a little bit off, but I thought it was a good sign. The second he was invisible. But I still have hopes.

Yeah, I have a lot of hopes. The problem is when there are this many variables to be hopeful about, you almost always aren't a good team. But we shall see. Getting better has to happen eventually. If we are good, maybe it'll take awhile. Would be refreshing for the second half to be our best half.

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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby CycloneGU » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:54 pm

The Frugal Gourmet wrote:I think making Benn the captain is what makes me most nervous. It would be no big deal if it wasn't for that.

Admit it, you just wanted to demoralize Benn being unable to get the C. This will have to suffice.

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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:15 pm

what?

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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby ToddM » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:38 pm

Ott hit like 8 or 9 posts his last season here. He was quite serviceable in a variety of ways.

I think Benn and Seguin have looked fine, honestly. It's just two games: if this were games 48 and 49, no one would be saying *poo poo*. I'm more concerned about seeing Nichsuhkin on the fourth line. He and Fiddler and Garbutt actually carried the play almost every shift in that first game, and a lot of that was Nich.

That said, it's a nice luxury to have the pieces to move around: Cole and Eakin to 3rd, Peverley to 1st, etc.

I think our biggest worry is backup goaltender. Ellis is a marginal upgrade over Bachman, possibly even a lateral move. He's not going to be stealing any starts from Lehtonen, which means Ruff will ride that horse until it drops. Which, if the last half decade tells us anything, should be about ten games before the end of the season - right when we need to make that final push.

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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:48 pm

ToddM wrote:I think our biggest worry is backup goaltender. .


Ok, I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you there.

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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby B Kat » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:11 pm

I sorta like the way that Ruff is using Nichushkin. He is playing him with ultra responsible players to start and in more of a defensive role. Plenty of time to let him run and gun.

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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:17 pm

Bachman was one of the worst goalies in the NHL last season. It's not possible to replace him with anything and call it a lateral move at best. The dude couldn't even crack the Oilers lineup, and as we know, that means you really suck.
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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:24 pm

Career:

Kari Lehtonen (10 seasons):

GAA: 2.7
Save Percentage: .915

Dan Ellis (7 seasons):

GAA: 2.73
Save Percentage: .91

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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby BigAl » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:24 pm

According to today's practice report: http://stars.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=686229

Rome is 7-10 days from returning from IR. Things aren't looking so good for Connauton, who hasn't been able to displace Jordie Benn from the lineup and who has been paired with Rome during the practices.
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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:26 pm

The problem is more like Benn has actually looked good. Surprisingly good.

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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby B Kat » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:29 pm

Jo Benn looked good last season too, when he wasn't turning the puck over. :)

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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:34 pm

There were a couple of times last game when a Stars defender deftly recovered the puck in his zone and made a nice move to exit the zone and bypass the opposing forecheck neatlyand I was totally shocked that the player doing it was wearing Jordie Benn's jersey.

Reeeeeeeealy small sample size though.

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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby wonko80 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:35 pm

He did that last year too. It's just the defending of players that he's not good at.

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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:36 pm

B Kat wrote:Jo Benn looked good last season too, when he wasn't turning the puck over. :)

Benn would make some dumb mistakes, but he was one of the few who contributed some offense when out there. I don't even think it's that he's good offensively. It was probably more due to him being of the few with the balls to pinch, join the rush, or -- god forbid -- take a shot on goal.
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Re: Official Dallas Stars 2013-14 Season Discussion Thread

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:37 pm

wonko80 wrote:He did that last year too. It's just the defending of players that he's not good at.


Yeah, but is that really important in a defenseman?

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